So I know this is a low-probability event. But what if I was deep into the BWCA (let's say 20 miles or more from any landing point) and a bear stole 100% of my food? All I would have left is possibly fishing. I'm planning to go SW deep into the boundary waters from entry point 55.

Of course, I would use either a bear canister or hang a bag but there is still the small probability that either is stolen. A bear canister could be rolled away and never found and a bag can be ripped down even with the best hanging. I have a fear of the possibility of running out of food now and need reassurance I am being illogical. Is there anything I can do to make this scenario almost impossible to occur?

As you said, it's a somewhat unlikely situation but it's happened to many people. If you're following bear aware practices, you should be good but for peace of mind, my recommendation would be to get a larger Ursack or two. If a bear does find it, it can only mash your stuff up. All it takes is tying it to a stout tree with the correct knot.

We use Ursacks. We use more than one and spread them out. A bear is unlikely to find and get them all. You could also use multiple different approaches so that a bear is unlikely to both figure out Ursacks and a canister. Or find both canisters. Belt and suspenders as the saying goes.

If it happens that you lose all your food, you end your trip early and paddle out. It shouldn't take you more than 3 days and if you can catch fish for food, you'll be fine. It sounds like you have never been through a survival course.

As noted, it will take you a lot longer to die of starvation than a couple of days; a lot of worse things could happen.

Beyond the mentioned - use multiple Ursacks/bear canisters - take low-odor food (dehydrated/freeze-dried) in multiple layers of scent-reducing materials (OPsacks/Smelly Proof bags, etc.). Keep food odors off the Ursacks. Avoid campsites with signs of bear activity, hide your food away from camp, off trails, not the obvious usual spot.

Rangers suggested strapping a bear canister to a tree. I have never had a bear problem in 20+ trips. I have been to that remote point you speak of and you'll be less likely to have bear problems the farther away you are from EP/busy areas.

If you have questions or want more information, just ask.

If a bear takes all your food and you’re 20 miles from an EP, that’s when the adventure begins. In the bwca I can travel 20 miles in a day and I can also go a day without eating food. You’ll be fine.

I’d rather lose all my food in this situation than break my leg.

You could keep a couple back-up candy bars in your tent?

In the bwca I carry a sidearm.Taking my food is a threat to my life.

Crappiekillah: "In the bwca I carry a sidearm."

When I'm on a canoe trip, I carry two sidearms - my right sidearm and my left side arm. Any other sidearms are ridiculously unnecessary.

Jackfish: "

Crappiekillah: "In the bwca I carry a sidearm."

When I'm on a canoe trip, I carry two sidearms - my right sidearm and my left side arm. Any other sidearms are ridiculously unnecessary. "

I see your ridiculous and raise you one superfluous.

Like andym said, I like to store my food in more than 1 location on longer trips. I use a harmony blue barrel and my buddy has an Ursack. I know the blue barrel is not bear proof, but I feel the risk is lower than me trying to hang a pack.

Between the 2 methods, I feel a total loss of all our food is unlikely. For a longer trip, adding a bear vault to the mix is not a bad idea.

Playing the "what if..." game enough will convince you to sit on the couch the rest of your life.

TZ

Jackfish: "

Crappiekillah: "In the bwca I carry a sidearm."

When I'm on a canoe trip, I carry two sidearms - my right sidearm and my left side arm. Any other sidearms are ridiculously unnecessary. "

I respect your opinion but………….Allowing a bear to take my food is “ridiculously unnecessary” And I will put some lead in his rear if all other options fail.

A couple of comments:

1. Bringing a sidearm to protect food from bears is silly talk. I'd like to hear that explanation to the rangers. Aside from hunting, a firearm is not necessary. I see people with them and I giggle (internally, of course.)

2. While the use of bear barrels and Ursacks are a great idea, don't overlook the importance of having a clean campsite. Odors can travel a long way and can attract bears, especially those habituated bears that have their regular route of campsites.

3. Many will label me lucky, silly, or naïve, but I've never used a bear barrel or an Ursack, and I've never had a bear steal my food. I've had bears in camp, and perhaps they would have stolen my pack had they not been chased away. Mice have been the bigger issue. But at night, I usually put my food pack on the ground, off the beaten path, and a bit outside my campsite, right next to a tree. Learned that tripping with Cliff Jacobson 45 years ago. I admit I may be living on borrowed time but it's worked for me in 50+ trips.

4. And like others have said, one could put 20 miles behind them in a long day and be able to exit. It might not be pleasant, but it's doable on most routes.

5. And don't store any food in your tent, please, even an emergency stash.

Mike

Crappiekillah: "

Jackfish: "

Crappiekillah: "In the bwca I carry a sidearm."

When I'm on a canoe trip, I carry two sidearms - my right sidearm and my left side arm. Any other sidearms are ridiculously unnecessary. "

I respect your opinion but………….Allowing a bear to take my food is “ridiculously unnecessary” And I will put some lead in his rear if all other options fail."

In 10 years, I have never seen a bear in the boundary waters. If a bear were to come in camp, I would find a sidearm too small to be effective. I'm not about to shoot and wound an animal that I have no intent to kill. That seems like animal cruelty to me.

Feel free to carry the extra weight if it makes you feel better, but I can't imagine a situation where a sidearm is the right tool for the job.

Crappiekillah: "

Jackfish: "

Crappiekillah: "In the bwca I carry a sidearm."

When I'm on a canoe trip, I carry two sidearms - my right sidearm and my left side arm. Any other sidearms are ridiculously unnecessary. "

I respect your opinion but………….Allowing a bear to take my food is “ridiculously unnecessary” And I will put some lead in his rear if all other options fail."

I've seen bears on at least 10 trips to the BWCA. Saw two in one day a couple years ago on Snipe Lake...one on the shore when we were paddling, and one I spooked on the portage between Snipe and Missing Link.

I've had bears in camp on three occasions. Rocks and loud noises very work well to get bears out of camp. Anyway, I'd rather have a bear steal my pack than to shoot one doing what bears do, and then having to explain it to the USFS, which would be the right thing to do. This is the BWCA, not interior Alaska, the Yukon or the Russian taiga...getting out if a bear takes your food will take one day, maybe two.

Mike

Crappiekillah: "

Jackfish: "

Crappiekillah: "In the bwca I carry a sidearm."

When I'm on a canoe trip, I carry two sidearms - my right sidearm and my left side arm. Any other sidearms are ridiculously unnecessary. "

I respect your opinion but………….Allowing a bear to take my food is “ridiculously unnecessary” And I will put some lead in his rear if all other options fail."

Usually, when your food is gone, so is the bear. You return to camp and realize you've been raided. A gun is useless at that point.

Jackfish: "

Crappiekillah: "In the bwca I carry a sidearm."

When I'm on a canoe trip, I carry two sidearms - my right sidearm and my left side arm. Any other sidearms are ridiculously unnecessary. "

Darn took my line, except i was gonna say I bring 2 guns my left and my right. It's all I need.

To the OP. Lots of good mentions so far.

Remember it's an adventure and a wilderness. If you could guarantee everything then it wouldn't be as fun.

Scenario if a bear ate all your food.
Food is usually one of the heaviest things you can bring, your packs would be way lighter. If you look at the maps of the BWCAW... if you travel hard I don't think there is any spot I couldn't get out in a day. It may not be the exit point I wanted but I'd be out and be able to get help--ride to my car. You aren't going to starve it just ends your trip early.

With no food and no water a human being can survive about a week give or take a few days. In the BWCAW you have plenty of water so we go on to no food (assuming you never caught a fish) you can survive up to 2-3 months without food. In both scenarios it's miserable but let's say you are the slowest paddler/portager ever...it's maybe gonna take you 2-4 days max to get out. That's REALLY SLOW, The worst case scenario you will be really hungry and you get food in town. You'd also have a great story. You aren't going to die, you won't be in danger.

T

Oh how I love these bear conversations.....

To the OP:

1. I second everything Boonie said above. Especially trying different systems. When I planned a 21 day trip (meaning 21 days food for me and my dog plus 3 emergency days), I used a blue barrel, a Bearvault, and 2 Ursacks. This was in Wabakimi and I was far more remote than anywhere in the BWCA. While information out there is imperfect, it seems to me that MOST bear related food thefts are in situations where bears have learned a trick. I recall videos of Algonquin where bear(s) became adept at stealing and crushing blue barrels. I recall data from ranger reports in Yosemite where bears learned to roll bear vaults off of cliffs to crack them. And I know there have been bears in the BWCA (and other places) that have learned to look for ropes and climb trees. But I don't think it is common at all for any bear to learn multiple tricks. I think of the famous Knife Lake video of the bear patiently working each end of the line or ropes to get the prize, but when it finally got it down and it was a blue barrel instead of a soft pack, the bear gave up. That bear knew how to defeat a hang, but not a barrel - a one trick bear as most of them are.

2. On the "clean camp" thing, I am going to split some hairs. First, any decent camp you are in in the BWCA has probably had 4-7 groups
there before you in the past week: a couple fried walleye splattering grease all over, then poured the grease in the fire pit, some opened packets of powdered food or drink and spilled bits all around, and several of them brushed their teeth with minty fresh toothpaste and spit around the edge of camp. No matter how clean YOU are, the smells of food are in almost every camp. That said, doing everything you can to keep the smell of food off of your food storage choices is paramount. I've seen videos of a guy frying fish right next to his blue barrel, or another of a guy cleaning a fish on top of one. This is simply idiotic.

3. Worst case, a bear does get your food. There is a fair chance it will not get ALL of your food, but you never know. (Note: bears can carry rabies, so any food items pierced run a chance of infecting you, though small). I'd say in worst case it is all gone, bring some extra cash and consider resupplying your self if possible. If there is an outfitter near by, you might stop by to buy some. Technically the FS does not allow you to exit and re-enter, but if you are out of food they may be flexible - I suggest you ask when you get your permit, but doubt they want to fly one out because of no food. Also, I suggest you simply ask people you meet if they have extra and might sell it - chances are they will give it. I remember once on a trip with a former girlfriend running into a family about a day away from the entry point with two kids on the portage who said a bear got their food. My GF didn't even hear the end of the word "food" before she opened our food pack to pass out power bars and a couple dehydrated meals for dinner and breakfast. I believe there are plenty of others out there who would help a fellow paddler if they could, even if it shortened their trip a day or so.

Shoot the bear. Eat the bear. You'll have plenty of food.

Just kidding.

You need to mix in a salad, and some fruit.

No really just kidding.

I wonder whether having a dog affects whether a bear comes into camp. I've been going for 50 plus years, and only had one bear encounter, and it did steal our pack. Dropped it down for the wife, before I went out fishing, and it beat her to the bag.

Many years we brought a golden retriever or labs, but not the year the bear took our bag. I would think a dog would be a good deterrent, or at the very least, a good alarm.

There are only a few problem bear spots in the BWCA so chances of an encounter are unlikely. I had a bear come into a campsite on Rose Lake and rip open a PFD pocket to get an empty cheese wrapper I had forgotten about and then it made an end run to the fire pit area and try to lick the last of my pudding container while I was cleaning up the cheese wrapper. Yet it never came back that night to bother my Ursack (all the food was also in Smelly Proof bags). Ursacks need to be tied correctly and then connected correctly to sturdy tree.

I always review the video at the bottom of the page linked before my first trip of the season. It is a great way to attach the Ursack to a tree. Ursack Holy Grail of Knots video


I love the Ursacks and it is recommended that if you have multiples to spread them out.

When I bring a bear canister, I walk away from any paths and find a low spot to drop it in. That way, on the off chance a bear starts to mess with it, it will just roll back down into the hollow. I was told NOT to lash it to a tree because then a bear can get better leverage on it to bite/crack it open...no idea if that is true or not.

I also take my food with me if I go out fishing, day paddling or day hiking. No point in giving a bear time alone with my food. And I place the food far enough from my tent to avoid a direct encounter, but not so far that I wouldn't hear noises of a bear trying to mess with it. Bears are typically big chickens and if you make enough noise (i can yell and sear really loud) they will back off (the bear near Clearwater Lake being a likely exception...even a group of experienced guides couldn't scare that one off...but the Rose Lake bear I scared off single handed).

Like I said,if ALL ELSE FAILS,meaning yelling,throwing rocks etc.I never leave my barrel in camp if I’m not there because that would be ridiculous.It also aids in trimming canoe while fishing.The only time my food is unattended is while double portaging and while visiting the thunder box.I keep a clean camp and don’t frequent campsites anywhere near E.P. except on last nite.But if I’m a couple days in and you are trying to steal my food we will have a problem.We’ve got plenty of bears where I live & hunt.We’ve been in situations where a bear had claimed a bow killed deer,not a fun situation in the dark,they have a different demeanor when claiming a carcass vs stealing a food pack.I guess I forgot it’s not ok to have different opinions today with certain “minded” people nowadays.I would never put down your opinions,just respect them and go on with my day.Good day.

One idea I have played around with in the past is a tripwire alarm in combination with my blue barrel. I have also seen it called a sound grenade. I bought one for cheap and bring it along on every trip since it is so light, but I haven't actually used it yet. I will if there are any warning signs or if I am aware of activity in the area. The idea here is not that the alarm would scare the bear off, though it would be great if it did, the idea is more that it would alert you that there is a bear in camp and give you a chance to drive off the bear.

To set one of these up, you just tie one end to the barrel and the other to a nearby tree. The trick is to make sure that if a bear does mess with the barrel, it pulls the clip out on the alarm. Tying the other end of the alarm to a thick branch directly above the barrel and setting the barrel on a log is one simple way of setting this up.

I have heard the complaint before that this would be disruptive to other campers. I think that a bear becoming a problem bear is far more disruptive than being woken up by someone driving off a bear in the middle of the night.

One thing I've noticed about Ursacks is that people who have had bears actually try to get in them are a lot less happy with them than people who have not. Your stuff will not only be crushed, but it may end up full of bear slobber as well. I've been looking at getting one, but it wouldn't be my only method.

As for carrying, that's something I will almost certainly never need. I've never needed a seatbelt or a lifejacket either, but I still use them.

For the record, although there's not much data out there because attacks are rare to begin with, in what little has been reported 9mm handguns have been 100% effective in repelling bear attacks. Bears are not the only danger when out in the middle of nowhere. I wouldn't recommend it be the primary plan, of course, nor would I consider nosing around my food to be an attack. Apologies for getting off track, I've said my piece and will leave it at that. To each their own.

A1t2o: "I have heard the complaint before that this would be disruptive to other campers. I think that a bear becoming a problem bear is far more disruptive than being woken up by someone driving off a bear in the middle of the night."

Banging on pots & pans and yelling & hollering at a bear are also noisy, but people still do it. The old FS video showed people doing just that. I think I have read stories of a series of incidents on a lake of noise as the bear visits each campsite on the lake. The act of making noise may also serve as a warning to others to be aware of a bear in the neighborhood.

analyzer: "I would think a dog would be a good deterrent, or at the very least, a good alarm. "

I often wonder about this...have taken 15 trips in the last 5 years, all with my dog Cerberus. Her motto is "Constant Vigilance", and we've never had a bear encounter in Woodland Caribou PP, Turtle River PP, Quetico PP or the BWCA.

No real way to be certain if that's a factor or not.

Crappiekillah: "

Jackfish: "

Crappiekillah: "In the bwca I carry a sidearm."

When I'm on a canoe trip, I carry two sidearms - my right sidearm and my left side arm. Any other sidearms are ridiculously unnecessary. "

I respect your opinion but………….Allowing a bear to take my food is “ridiculously unnecessary” And I will put some lead in his rear if all other options fail."

I'm glad others have already offered their input on this topic. I would have tried to answer as tactfully and as courteously as I could muster, but it probably wouldn't have come out that way. Had I answered as I intended, I would have said that anyone who feels the need to pack a handgun on a trip to the BW has small p**** disease.

But instead of saying that, I will simply say that purposefully wounding a bear is the wrong thing to do and carrying a gun on a canoe trip in the BWCA is not necessary. (I'm glad I said it this way.)

well crappiekillah, make sure you stay mighty quiet about it if you ever shoot a bear for messing with your food. DNR would NOT consider that a life threatening situation and would arrest you for shooting a bear out of season. Don't mention it in a trip report!

Crappiekillah: "In the bwca I carry a sidearm.Taking my food is a threat to my life."

Your profile states you have never been on a BWCA trip. It also says you joined the forum less than a month ago. Poorly timed April fools joke ?

YaMarVa: "If a bear takes all your food and you’re 20 miles from an EP, that’s when the adventure begins. In the bwca I can travel 20 miles in a day and I can also go a day without eating food. You’ll be fine.

I’d rather lose all my food in this situation than break my leg. "

Yup 20 mile paddle day is very doable. I did a 100 mile trip and 20 mile days where our average.

Bears are creatures of habit and will visit lakes and campsites that have provided them food. Don’t camp on known bear lakes such as Agnes-there are plenty others. Camp on lakes that are less busy and campsites that don’t see a lot of traffic. While I do take measures to keep my food safe, I don’t worry too much about it.

Jackfish: "I'm glad others have already offered their input on this topic. I would have tried to answer as tactfully and as courteously as I could muster, but it probably wouldn't have come out that way. Had I answered as I intended, I would have said that anyone who feels the need to pack a handgun on a trip to the BW has small p**** disease.

But instead of saying that, I will simply say that purposefully wounding a bear is the wrong thing to do and carrying a gun on a canoe trip in the BWCA is not necessary. (I'm glad I said it this way.) "

Uh huh. But you did say it. You couldn't help yourself, because you're so tactful and courteous. And such a compelling argument too. Mature and logical.

plmn: "...For the record, although there's not much data out there because attacks are rare to begin with, in what little has been reported 9mm handguns have been 100% effective in repelling bear attacks...."

I'd be interested in seeing that data. Post link.

sns: "

analyzer: "I would think a dog would be a good deterrent, or at the very least, a good alarm. "

I often wonder about this...have taken 15 trips in the last 5 years, all with my dog Cerberus. Her motto is "Constant Vigilance", and we've never had a bear encounter in Woodland Caribou PP, Turtle River PP, Quetico PP or the BWCA.

No real way to be certain if that's a factor or not."

I for sure think a dog is a factor because we may not smell it but to an animal, dog's stink. I trip with a lab all the time and have never had an animal encounter and reserve myself to the fact that I probably won't as long as she's with me. But it's a tradeoff I'm willing to accept.

I think the talk of dogs being a deterrent to bears is wishful thinking.

I’ve never brought a dog and I’ve never had a bear in camp. So it must be true, dogs attract bears instead of deterring them…see what I did there :)

A bear is afraid of a pack of dogs—-that is documented…a single dog? I don’t think so. In fact I’ve only heard stories of dogs bringing Bears into camp, not keeping them away. A small dog is an easy dinner…a big lab…maybe will deter a small yearling…a mature bear…your dog is once again an easy dinner. A bear is an efficient killing machine…your dog is a pet.

You, as a human being are WAY BIGGER than any dog you will ever bring to the BWCAW. A bear respects and fears size. A bear hunts and eats animals smaller than them as part of their food chain.

Maybe there is an argument for you and your dog standing up to a bear? 2 against one so to speak? I just haven’t seen where that was documented.

It wouldn’t deter me from brining a dog though. I just wouldn’t think my dog was going to save my food…

T

timatkn: "I think the talk of dogs being a deterrent to bears is wishful thinking.


I’ve never brought a dog and I’ve never had a bear in camp. So it must be true, dogs attract bears instead of deterring them…see what I did there :)


A bear is afraid of a pack of dogs—-that is documented…a single dog? I don’t think so. In fact I’ve only heard stories of dogs bringing Bears into camp, not keeping them away. A small dog is an easy dinner…a big lab…maybe will deter a small yearling…a mature bear…your dog is once again an easy dinner. A bear is an efficient killing machine…your dog is a pet.


You, as a human being are WAY BIGGER than any dog you will ever bring to the BWCAW. A bear respects and fears size. A bear hunts and eats animals smaller than them as part of their food chain.


Maybe there is an argument for you and your dog standing up to a bear? 2 against one so to speak? I just haven’t seen where that was documented.


It wouldn’t deter me from brining a dog though. I just wouldn’t think my dog was going to save my food…


T"

Oh. I don't think my dog's going to protect me from a hungry bear, or hungry raccoon for that matter. Way too timid. But to bears unaccustomed to humans and want nothing to do but avoid I know she helps.

timatkn: "I think the talk of dogs being a deterrent to bears is wishful thinking.

T"

I understand your point, and agree to an extent. I don't think we can lump black bears into one cookie cutter mold.

From what i've read from dozens of bear encounters, and even one of our own, most black bears seem to be easily scared off, in which yelling, waving, making noise etc, is helpful.

A smaller percent seem to be neutral, they're not aggressive towards the people, but they aren't easily scared off. Even throwing rocks doesn't get them out of camp. Those campers generally pack up and leave.

Then there are the extremely rare cases of an aggressive bear, that actually attacks a human. It doesn't seem like this is more than maybe 1 or 2% of black bears, if that.

I sometimes wonder if the same bear from the first category, can turn into one of the bears from the 2nd two categories, depending on how hungry it is, and whether there is abundant food or not. The first ones may be well fed, and eating your food just isn't that important. But years where there are bad berry crops etc, and less food available, I would think all bets are off.

sns: "

analyzer: "I would think a dog would be a good deterrent, or at the very least, a good alarm. "

I often wonder about this...have taken 15 trips in the last 5 years, all with my dog Cerberus. Her motto is "Constant Vigilance", and we've never had a bear encounter in Woodland Caribou PP, Turtle River PP, Quetico PP or the BWCA.

No real way to be certain if that's a factor or not."

"Cerberus"

That's a cool name.

I sell fire alarm systems. There are 100's of systems out there, and some are like 40 years old. A few times I've run across a system called "Cerberus Pyrotronics" its a line that Siemens sold.

Either way, until just now, I didn't know that Cerberus was a 3-headed dog in Greek Mythology. Thanks to your comment, I went and looked it up. Cool.

Maybe 3-headed dog would deter bears.

Cerberus would definitely deter a bear :)

This message has had HTML content edited out of it.

bobbernumber3: "

plmn: "...For the record, although there's not much data out there because attacks are rare to begin with, in what little has been reported 9mm handguns have been 100% effective in repelling bear attacks...."

I'd be interested in seeing that data. Post link."

"Latest" Data
Older data sorted by caliber

Bear defense by handgun overall success rate in 170 documented instances: 98%

Note that latest data means latest examples found, not most recent cases. This is an ongoing search.

Firearms vs Bear Spray

Effectiveness in repelling a charging Brown Bear
Bear Spray: 33%
Firearms: 95%

Again, limited data available and this time not limited to handguns. But it is interesting to see how the mainstream media was deceivingly selective (or perhaps simply incompetent) in how they originally presented the data.

I'd hate to shoot a bear, it would be a last resort, and as I said before very unlikely to begin with. But if a bear is that aggressive towards humans it's going to get killed eventually anyway. That's reality.

Ursacks,Pulley systems, barrels, dogs...even tripwire sound grenades...none of those get get critiqued for overkill, weight, or just personal opinion on useful vs useless. Then those that choose to legally carry a sidearm into the BWCA share their opinion...on a message board (oh the horror), and the claws come out.

I don't agree with the idea of shooting a bear if it is just taking the food. It could be used to scare the bear off with the loud noise, if the bear (for whatever reason) decided to charge it would be better to have than not.

There are many reasons why some choose to carry in the BWCA and some don't, to each their own. Let's bust out the entire packing lists and share critique on items some of you bring that I would deem "unnecessary" or the only reason for bringing is "small privates disease". The hypocrisy is amazing but not surprising.

I carry a small 'survival kit' on me at all times when not in camp (there are threads elsewhere about what to include). If my gear/food/boat got ditched somehow, and I wasn't seriously injured, I'd survive. I might be good and hungry, but that's the least of my concerns compared to other matters, s/as exposure to the elements.

We have gone to using the bear vaults. One tip: put a strip of reflective tape on either end -- so if your bear barrel gets moved about in the night, you'll find it easier with your flashlight.

To some other points. We keep a VERY clean camp, and we had a bear in camp once, on the horse portage. Well, same bear, twice. The bear clearly was already habituated to that area's campsites = food. We shagged it off on the first (PM) visit by yelling.

It (predictably, I might add) returned in the morning. This time, yelling and banging cook ware was less successful. I resorted to throwing rocks at the bear, who was now making chomping noises w/ their teeth (a rather unforgettable sound). It took off, and we packed up on got out of there toot sweet. I had (and still carry) bear mace. I did not need to use it.

We ran into a guy at a site on Rose in 2021 who had a bear come into camp while he was cooking fish for dinner. He let loose w/ an air horn and the bear scrambled. I've read up on bears and bear attacks quite a bit. I'm good with bear mace. I may add a small air horn to my kit. I've no need to bring a gun.

CoachWalleye74: "Ursacks,Pulley systems, barrels, dogs...even tripwire sound grenades...none of those get get critiqued for overkill, weight, or just personal opinion on useful vs useless. Then those that choose to legally carry a sidearm into the BWCA share their opinion...on a message board (oh the horror), and the claws come out.

I don't agree with the idea of shooting a bear if it is just taking the food. It could be used to scare the bear off with the loud noise, if the bear (for whatever reason) decided to charge it would be better to have than not.

There are many reasons why some choose to carry in the BWCA and some don't, to each their own. Let's bust out the entire packing lists and share critique on items some of you bring that I would deem "unnecessary" or the only reason for bringing is "small privates disease". The hypocrisy is amazing but not surprising. "

Touched a nerve did we???

As a fellow gun owner, as are most of those that have “critiqued” the need of a firearm on a trip…there is a huge difference when comparing ursacks, barrels, hanging, dogs etc…to a gun.

Number one is you need to be more careful and need to have some type of training to bring a gun. None of the other things mentioned (maybe the dog) can cause the harm to yourself or another individual if mishandled like a gun can. Understandably that may make people more reactive to a post.

You are taking some of the firearm comments out of context too. What started all of the firearm talk was the OP asked what should I do to keep my food safe. A flippant comment about bringing a sidearm was made. I don’t think that poster really was trying to say that a sidearm was the most important thing to bring but that’s how it comes off in the written word. A comment like that is going to have consequences and comments no matter the original intent. It is terrible advice without knowing the OP. Does the OP own a gun? Are they trained? Do they even want to bring one? We can all agree that for methods to keep bears away a gun is way down the list on importance. It’s keeping smells down, where you camp, securing food, keep a clean camp are way ahead of “bring a gun”.

Now I called ya sensitive because you highlighted that ursacks, pulleys, dogs, barrels etc…don’t get critiqued on this site for overkill? All of those topics have been beaten to death and debated in multiple long threads on this website. Probably more than the firearm topic…I don’t think this supposed hypocrisy exists. There is too much evidence to counter that.

Finally as a fellow gun owner I can say there is a stereotype of fellow gun owners “carrying” because they need to compensate for “something”…I wouldn’t say size :) more out of fear and paranoia, and that’s scary. It’s not most gun owners, but it’s true just enough to keep the stereotype going. is it fair?…no…but be aware of it. It is what it is at this point. People are going to make assumptions about your choices, especially when the majority of gun owners on this site agree that it is your right to carry, but we also think it is unnecessary.

T

Plmn,

The reports on the success of handguns on bears is higher than I thought. A lot of those caliber’s used were pretty high though…the Glock 20 10mm has the nickname bear killer. I don’t think many carry that or similar. Either way, still decent record. Doesn’t change what I will do in the BWCAW, but appreciate the numbers.

Funny that one success in the BWCAW came off a post from this very website :).

T

Bear eats all of your food.
Come home.
Make a better plan for next time.

Those numbers on handgun effectiveness vary greatly depending on the source (as do those for bear spray). When deep in bear country I always carry a 10mm, either a Tanfoglio or an M&P ten loaded with buffalo bore hard cast. I have had bears in camp a few times, both blacks and grizzlies I would never rely on a 9mm for bear protection and the BWCA is not bear country.

There is no need for a gun in the BWCA unless you’re hunting. Water is what kills people, and that’s what we should be concerned with. Doesn’t do any good to shoot the water.

Welcome to the board martenskier21! I bet you had no idea the controversy your simple question would create. :-)
I wouldn't worry too much about a bad bear encounter in the BWCA. Take basic precautions as many have described here and you should be fine.
Even if a bear gets your food, you can generally exit in under 2 days from anywhere. In over 50 trips, I have only had 2 encounters. Ran them off both times with no losses, guns or spray and moved camp, problem solved.

In regards to the gun vs spray arguement.
As a guy who works with numbers for a living. The statistics being quoted are meaningless. I think the Outside article says it best:

"All studies are limited both by the outright rarity of bear attacks and the inability to recreate them in a controlled environment. We’re parsing an incredibly small number of encounters influenced by a huge number of variables, then trying to arrive at definitive conclusions. The best we can do is compare disparate data sets, applying our own subjective criteria to try and arrive at an inadequate conclusion."

I don't carry a firearm, sometimes carry spray when I don't forget it. For the extra weight, I'd rather carry some bourbon or a couple steaks. If somebody else wants to carry, I really don't care as long as it's not pointed at me.
Enjoy your trip!!

The literal answer to the question "what should I do if a bear steals all of my food?" is paddle back to the car. You'll likely get hungry on the way.

If you are a survivalist you could first eat some twigs and bugs and stuff; maybe bird eggs. Then paddle to the car.

If you are a pistol fancier, you could draw it and hold it front of you, pointed up like on TV. Then you could make hand signals to your partner and dart from tree to tree looking out of the corner of your eyes with your back to the tree as you control your breath. Experts recommend raising one eyebrow for a moment and then squinting. Then paddle to the car.
You could think about the pros and cons of different calibers and things as you paddled. Stopping power, etc.

If you are a Darwinist, you could eat the clumsiest of your tripping partners. Then paddle to the car.

Call ahead to a pizza place as soon as you have cell service.

timatkn: "

CoachWalleye74: "Ursacks,Pulley systems, barrels, dogs...even tripwire sound grenades...none of those get get critiqued for overkill, weight, or just personal opinion on useful vs useless. Then those that choose to legally carry a sidearm into the BWCA share their opinion...on a message board (oh the horror), and the claws come out.

I don't agree with the idea of shooting a bear if it is just taking the food. It could be used to scare the bear off with the loud noise, if the bear (for whatever reason) decided to charge it would be better to have than not.

There are many reasons why some choose to carry in the BWCA and some don't, to each their own. Let's bust out the entire packing lists and share critique on items some of you bring that I would deem "unnecessary" or the only reason for bringing is "small privates disease". The hypocrisy is amazing but not surprising. "

Touched a nerve did we???

As a fellow gun owner, as are most of those that have “critiqued” the need of a firearm on a trip…there is a huge difference when comparing ursacks, barrels, hanging, dogs etc…to a gun.

Number one is you need to be more careful and need to have some type of training to bring a gun. None of the other things mentioned (maybe the dog) can cause the harm to yourself or another individual if mishandled like a gun can. Understandably that may make people more reactive to a post.

You are taking some of the firearm comments out of context too. What started all of the firearm talk was the OP asked what should I do to keep my food safe. A flippant comment about bringing a sidearm was made. I don’t think that poster really was trying to say that a sidearm was the most important thing to bring but that’s how it comes off in the written word. A comment like that is going to have consequences and comments no matter the original intent. It is terrible advice without knowing the OP. Does the OP own a gun? Are they trained? Do they even want to bring one? We can all agree that for methods to keep bears away a gun is way down the list on importance. It’s keeping smells down, where you camp, securing food, keep a clean camp are way ahead of “bring a gun”.

Now I called ya sensitive because you highlighted that ursacks, pulleys, dogs, barrels etc…don’t get critiqued on this site for overkill? All of those topics have been beaten to death and debated in multiple long threads on this website. Probably more than the firearm topic…I don’t think this supposed hypocrisy exists. There is too much evidence to counter that.

Finally as a fellow gun owner I can say there is a stereotype of fellow gun owners “carrying” because they need to compensate for “something”…I wouldn’t say size :) more out of fear and paranoia, and that’s scary. It’s not most gun owners, but it’s true just enough to keep the stereotype going. is it fair?…no…but be aware of it. It is what it is at this point. People are going to make assumptions about your choices, especially when the majority of gun owners on this site agree that it is your right to carry, but we also think it is unnecessary.

T"

Again, to no surprise, half truths, assumptions, and absolute falsities. No nerve struck here, just calling it how I see it.

Training, being careful....that apply to hatchets, axes, knives? You want to break out the statistics on number of BWCA injuries related to these items in comparison with firearms?

Taking out of context, that's rich! As you took the initial post on firearms completely out of context. Can't make it up...scroll on up and see. The poster shared what they bring, no comment whatsoever about if the OP should bring the same. Then you share your opinion on how YOU interpreted it and that most do the same...must be clairvoyant? Maybe the poster does know the OP?

I don't recall reading you calling me anything, let alone sensitive. Not sure where you got that. You've also taken out of context my comment about ursacks, pulleys, let's not forget the ever common tripwire sound grenade system. My comment centers that in response to the OP's question there have been many different ideas that people use to address the question. Only one, a sidearm, has elicited comments like "ridiculously uneccessary, superflous, small p**** disease, and silly talk".

As for the stereotype comments I don't even know how to respond with a reasonable comment as it makes no sense whatsoever to me.

To the OP, there are many options presented that will serve you well with what makes you the most comfortable. Find what works for you and enjoy a great trip!

I’d start off with your fear of mice and work up… they’ll be your worst enemy if your running a bear magnet camp!

"Is there anything I can do to make this scenario almost impossible to occur?"

No.

Sounds like a great trip. Have fun. And don't waste mental capital on this unlikely event. The worst you'll suffer are hunger pangs. No big deal.

Think of it this way, you will be getting free beers for life with that story.

+1, well said Boonie! Bears tend to frequent high traffic areas closer to EP’s and popular routes. Obviously anything can happen , but I think you may be worried about a highly unlikely event. Even if it did happen, you can paddle out easily over a day or two, and you’ll probably be hungry when you reach civilization, but far from emaciated. Have a great trip!

Tony

boonie: "As noted, it will take you a lot longer to die of starvation than a couple of days; a lot of worse things could happen.

Beyond the mentioned - use multiple Ursacks/bear canisters - take low-odor food (dehydrated/freeze-dried) in multiple layers of scent-reducing materials (OPsacks/Smelly Proof bags, etc.). Keep food odors off the Ursacks. Avoid campsites with signs of bear activity, hide your food away from camp, off trails, not the obvious usual spot.

Rangers suggested strapping a bear canister to a tree. I have never had a bear problem in 20+ trips. I have been to that remote point you speak of and you'll be less likely to have bear problems the farther away you are from EP/busy areas.

If you have questions or want more information, just ask. "